<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.1.3" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Morality in RPGs</title>
	<link>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/</link>
	<description>The thoughts of an Aspie on Technology, Politics, and Everything. - The Answer isn't always 42.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: Ryvaken</title>
		<link>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-476</link>
		<author>Ryvaken</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-476</guid>
					<description>One of the hardest things I find with alignments is that people who equate "good" with "nice" or "kind." Any kind of warrior archtype is going to be violent, and will consider violence as a possible course of action early in the decision making process. It has nothing to do with alignment; that's just how the character is trained to handle a situation. The Paladin's response to evil has a very good chance of involving the word "smite". A Good Barbarian is still going to think in terms of "Thog smash".

Second on the list of problems are alignment based spells, items, and effects. I'm sorry but ever since I was a kid I've been exposed to a morality that states that a weapon or tool can be used for good or evil equally well depending on the hands that wield it. More than once I've been tempted to send my wizard into the slaughtered ruins of our enemies, raise them as skeletons, then send them to the local orphanage to tuck the kids in and tell them bedtime stories. I'm weird like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the hardest things I find with alignments is that people who equate &#8220;good&#8221; with &#8220;nice&#8221; or &#8220;kind.&#8221; Any kind of warrior archtype is going to be violent, and will consider violence as a possible course of action early in the decision making process. It has nothing to do with alignment; that&#8217;s just how the character is trained to handle a situation. The Paladin&#8217;s response to evil has a very good chance of involving the word &#8220;smite&#8221;. A Good Barbarian is still going to think in terms of &#8220;Thog smash&#8221;.</p>
<p>Second on the list of problems are alignment based spells, items, and effects. I&#8217;m sorry but ever since I was a kid I&#8217;ve been exposed to a morality that states that a weapon or tool can be used for good or evil equally well depending on the hands that wield it. More than once I&#8217;ve been tempted to send my wizard into the slaughtered ruins of our enemies, raise them as skeletons, then send them to the local orphanage to tuck the kids in and tell them bedtime stories. I&#8217;m weird like that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh the Aspie</title>
		<link>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-477</link>
		<author>Josh the Aspie</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-477</guid>
					<description>A fighter can easily be kind. If a starving kid looks up at the character on his way back from the dungeon, or a farmer who has no way to pay for help asks for aid in saving his family from orcs, a good character may well help either of them, in a kindly fashion. It just so happens that the fighter may help by causing the orcs that captured the family to go splut, and the ranger may feed the kid by killing a wild boar (or giving him a piece of the boar he killed on the way into town).

As for the spells, there are actually specific rational for this. Typically, evil aligned spells call upon the powers of darkness, or energy from an elemental plain of negative energy that represents the antithesis of life. Such powers are said to be either corrupting (the evil ones) or destructive to the world as a whole (negative energy ones), or both. Similarly with rebuking undead.

However some campaigns and splat books have dealt with the paradigm of 'using evil to do good'. In &lt;em&gt;Complete Scoundrel&lt;/em&gt;, there is a summoning prestige class which allows one to cast conjuration spells with the evil descriptor without it being an evil act. The class eventually grants many abilities to those who 'trick demons' into doing the work the character wants them to do.

Some campaign settings, such as Arcanis, state that an act is only evil if you perform it in an evil way, or for an evil purpose. For example, a necromancer who raises dead using the following incantation: "Long past warriors of our nation. Though you deserve your rest, your nation requires your assistance yet again to repel the invaders. In death we call you to repel those who you fought in life!" in order to save a village from being over-run and slaughtered is not performing an evil act.

On the other hand, a necromancer who raises a person's loved one to mentally torture them, or one who spills the lifeblood of a sentient being as a part of the ritual is definitely performing an evil act.

On the other hand, evil items are ones that by their very nature are attuned to evil. While a flaming longsword can do good or ill in the hands of any wielder, an unholy longsword is specifically meant to be harmful to goodness, and support evil. They are designed to attack beings of another alignment, and do so even as such a character uses them. So while a good character could wield a +1 unholy longsword, it'd be harder, and in most circumstances be of less use, than wielding a simple +1 longsword.

On the other hand, neutral characters would have no such problem. If you want to play a gritty champion who uses the evil tools and some of the tactics of the enemy against them, this fits in very well with a LN follower of St. Cuthbert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A fighter can easily be kind. If a starving kid looks up at the character on his way back from the dungeon, or a farmer who has no way to pay for help asks for aid in saving his family from orcs, a good character may well help either of them, in a kindly fashion. It just so happens that the fighter may help by causing the orcs that captured the family to go splut, and the ranger may feed the kid by killing a wild boar (or giving him a piece of the boar he killed on the way into town).</p>
<p>As for the spells, there are actually specific rational for this. Typically, evil aligned spells call upon the powers of darkness, or energy from an elemental plain of negative energy that represents the antithesis of life. Such powers are said to be either corrupting (the evil ones) or destructive to the world as a whole (negative energy ones), or both. Similarly with rebuking undead.</p>
<p>However some campaigns and splat books have dealt with the paradigm of &#8216;using evil to do good&#8217;. In <em>Complete Scoundrel</em>, there is a summoning prestige class which allows one to cast conjuration spells with the evil descriptor without it being an evil act. The class eventually grants many abilities to those who &#8216;trick demons&#8217; into doing the work the character wants them to do.</p>
<p>Some campaign settings, such as Arcanis, state that an act is only evil if you perform it in an evil way, or for an evil purpose. For example, a necromancer who raises dead using the following incantation: &#8220;Long past warriors of our nation. Though you deserve your rest, your nation requires your assistance yet again to repel the invaders. In death we call you to repel those who you fought in life!&#8221; in order to save a village from being over-run and slaughtered is not performing an evil act.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a necromancer who raises a person&#8217;s loved one to mentally torture them, or one who spills the lifeblood of a sentient being as a part of the ritual is definitely performing an evil act.</p>
<p>On the other hand, evil items are ones that by their very nature are attuned to evil. While a flaming longsword can do good or ill in the hands of any wielder, an unholy longsword is specifically meant to be harmful to goodness, and support evil. They are designed to attack beings of another alignment, and do so even as such a character uses them. So while a good character could wield a +1 unholy longsword, it&#8217;d be harder, and in most circumstances be of less use, than wielding a simple +1 longsword.</p>
<p>On the other hand, neutral characters would have no such problem. If you want to play a gritty champion who uses the evil tools and some of the tactics of the enemy against them, this fits in very well with a LN follower of St. Cuthbert.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ryvaken</title>
		<link>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-480</link>
		<author>Ryvaken</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-480</guid>
					<description>Unholy weapons are hard to make an argument about since Good is generally cooperative, and when not tends to prefer compromise over violence.

But what about a Holy weapon? A demon might wish such a weapon to strike down a devil, or vice versa. Likewise the whole concept breaks down when evil fights evil -- the Good side clearly profits by playing one against the other, but that would be an act of betrayal -- an arguably evil act. Certainly arranging for a massacre is less than laudable.

The Negative Energy Plane is NOT evil. That in and of itself brings question to the entire morality of spells that draw upon it and creatures animated through it. Why is animating the bones of a skeleton evil, while animating a statue neutral? What is so special about the corporeal remains of the dead that makes them inviolate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unholy weapons are hard to make an argument about since Good is generally cooperative, and when not tends to prefer compromise over violence.</p>
<p>But what about a Holy weapon? A demon might wish such a weapon to strike down a devil, or vice versa. Likewise the whole concept breaks down when evil fights evil &#8212; the Good side clearly profits by playing one against the other, but that would be an act of betrayal &#8212; an arguably evil act. Certainly arranging for a massacre is less than laudable.</p>
<p>The Negative Energy Plane is NOT evil. That in and of itself brings question to the entire morality of spells that draw upon it and creatures animated through it. Why is animating the bones of a skeleton evil, while animating a statue neutral? What is so special about the corporeal remains of the dead that makes them inviolate?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh the Aspie</title>
		<link>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-530</link>
		<author>Josh the Aspie</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 04:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-530</guid>
					<description>Well if a Demon wants to strike down a devil, or visa versa, they'll likely use a weapon along the law/chaos axis, this would also allow them to strike down some of their celestial enemies as well, should said celestials choose to interfere, or should they be encountered in any way.

The problem is that it's be pretty darn hard to imbue any weapon with sheer goodness and holyness when you, yourself are a thing of profanity. And I doubt any beings of goodness and light would want their potent weapons to wind up a resource for evil, so I can easily see the -2 negative levels being built in.

As for the negative energy, it is it's self not evil. However, keep in mind that negative energy leads directly to the decay of any world you bring it into. Causing damage to your world, and to the prime material as a whole could easily be classified as evil, neh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if a Demon wants to strike down a devil, or visa versa, they&#8217;ll likely use a weapon along the law/chaos axis, this would also allow them to strike down some of their celestial enemies as well, should said celestials choose to interfere, or should they be encountered in any way.</p>
<p>The problem is that it&#8217;s be pretty darn hard to imbue any weapon with sheer goodness and holyness when you, yourself are a thing of profanity. And I doubt any beings of goodness and light would want their potent weapons to wind up a resource for evil, so I can easily see the -2 negative levels being built in.</p>
<p>As for the negative energy, it is it&#8217;s self not evil. However, keep in mind that negative energy leads directly to the decay of any world you bring it into. Causing damage to your world, and to the prime material as a whole could easily be classified as evil, neh?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ryvaken</title>
		<link>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-536</link>
		<author>Ryvaken</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-536</guid>
					<description>Hmm. Supplying Evil with tools of destruction that are most effective against eachother and less effective against Celestials. You're right, there's no reason to distribute such weapons to the enemy. *sarcasm*

Decay is natural. Decay is necessary. Old things must die for new things to grow. Purging fires invigorate the forest to new growth. Decomposing flesh and fauna feed insects.

Also, in D&#38;D cosmology, positive energy is equally destructive. One might as well describe Heal as damaging to the Prime Material.

And as a final point, you make a wonderful case for traveling to Hell and channeling as much negative energy as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. Supplying Evil with tools of destruction that are most effective against eachother and less effective against Celestials. You&#8217;re right, there&#8217;s no reason to distribute such weapons to the enemy. *sarcasm*</p>
<p>Decay is natural. Decay is necessary. Old things must die for new things to grow. Purging fires invigorate the forest to new growth. Decomposing flesh and fauna feed insects.</p>
<p>Also, in D&amp;D cosmology, positive energy is equally destructive. One might as well describe Heal as damaging to the Prime Material.</p>
<p>And as a final point, you make a wonderful case for traveling to Hell and channeling as much negative energy as possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh the Aspie</title>
		<link>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-537</link>
		<author>Josh the Aspie</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-537</guid>
					<description>Right. So I make a shocking, flaming sword that is sharper than any mundane sword, specifically for fighting the forces of evil, thus also imbuing it with holy energy that they happen not to be able to use on me. Of course I want them to be able to use the shocking, and flaming abilities on me.

And yes, Decay is natural. However, allow me to be more specific, negative energy actually damages the matter the world it's self is made of, disrupting that natural cycle, at least according to some interpretations. Note that I'm playing devil's advocate here.

And positive energy is damaging only so far as a sudden influx of additional energy can be damaging in a confined area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. So I make a shocking, flaming sword that is sharper than any mundane sword, specifically for fighting the forces of evil, thus also imbuing it with holy energy that they happen not to be able to use on me. Of course I want them to be able to use the shocking, and flaming abilities on me.</p>
<p>And yes, Decay is natural. However, allow me to be more specific, negative energy actually damages the matter the world it&#8217;s self is made of, disrupting that natural cycle, at least according to some interpretations. Note that I&#8217;m playing devil&#8217;s advocate here.</p>
<p>And positive energy is damaging only so far as a sudden influx of additional energy can be damaging in a confined area.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: VannA</title>
		<link>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-601</link>
		<author>VannA</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 03:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.joshtheaspie.com/2007/08/28/morality-in-rpgs/#comment-601</guid>
					<description>As Josh has said.. Negative Energy destroys positive energy, and vice versa. It is not simply decay, which, as indicated, is a natural function of the world..

As for the animating the dead/animating a statue?

Necromancy, in theory, specifically brings back a dead soul to inhabit the corpse, powered by negative energy, and forced into slavery.

Animating a statue, if done by enslaving an elemental, could also be seen to be an evil act, as I would posit any act of slavery is evil, or utilitarian at absolute best.

However, I believe that the general animation spells do not necessarily invoke possession via an elemental.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Josh has said.. Negative Energy destroys positive energy, and vice versa. It is not simply decay, which, as indicated, is a natural function of the world..</p>
<p>As for the animating the dead/animating a statue?</p>
<p>Necromancy, in theory, specifically brings back a dead soul to inhabit the corpse, powered by negative energy, and forced into slavery.</p>
<p>Animating a statue, if done by enslaving an elemental, could also be seen to be an evil act, as I would posit any act of slavery is evil, or utilitarian at absolute best.</p>
<p>However, I believe that the general animation spells do not necessarily invoke possession via an elemental.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>

